Mathew's comments - Latest Comments in Drop that compact disc, music thief

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

mathewi — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:10:02 -0000

Shelley, no one is tarring or demonizing anyone. I think there is
enough wiggle room in the RIAA's phrasing to allow the industry to
argue that copying of any kind amounts to copyright infringement, and
if you took the time to look at some of the commentary and filings
made in the DMCA review I referred to I think you would agree -- the
industry's joint reply to Congress specifically says that just because
they haven't pursued any action based on copying a legally acquired
CD, that doesn't mean it qualifies as a non-infringing use.

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

Shelley — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:01:36 -0000

Guys, the brief spent five pages defining what shared meant in this case -- KaZaA shared folders, meant to have files publicly accessible for files to be copied across the internet.

They didn't define 'shared' to be your little home network, where files from one Mac can be accessed by your PC or whatever. The brief talks about shared, in this case to mean a version of public distribution.

Why must we go to such extraordinary means to overly vilify that which we don't agree with?

The RIAA can't be 'bad' -- it must be indulging in the ultimate of infamies...the lawyers will appear at our windows late one night, with police ready to take us away.

Or must I remind you both of the risk of believing everything you read. Something about this is familiar.

Thanks for the space to comment Mathew, but if I continue I'll just be branded a troll.

Happy tarring.

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

mathewi — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:27:02 -0000

I agree with your interpretation, Karoli -- it's obvious that the RIAA
believes simply copying them and putting them in a shared folder is a
copyright offence, or they wouldn't have used the word "moreover."

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

Karoli — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:23:09 -0000

Let me clarify what I wrote above...it's murky.

I am not referring to the 11 MP3 files Howell allegedly distributed via KaZaa. But the specific language that the RIAA uses in their supplemental brief broadens the definition of "distribution" -- here's the language:

"Virtually all of the sound recordings on Exhibit B are in the “.mp3” format. (Exhibit 10 to SOF, showing virtually all audio files with the “.mp3” extension.) Defendant admitted that he converted these sound recordings from their original format to the .mp3 format for his and his wife’s use. (Howell Dep. 107:24 to 110:2; 114:1 to 116:16). The .mp3 format is a “compressed format [that] allows for rapid transmission of digital audio files from one computer to another by electronic mail or any other file transfer protocol.” Napster, 239 F.3d at 1011. Once Defendant converted Plaintiffs’ recording into the compressed .mp3 format and they are in his shared folder, they are no longer the authorized copies distributed by Plaintiffs. Moreover, Defendant had no authorization to distribute Plaintiffs’ copyrighted recordings from his KaZaA shared folder."

I have never used KaZaA, Napster or Limewire. But I have a folder of shared music on my computer that contains my personal MP3s, ripped from CDs that I bought for full price.

Does the act of placing them in my shared folder for my family's use make me a pirate?

If these arguments are accepted by the court, the RIAA will indeed make the argument that ripping CDs to your hard drive is a crime. The only question will become whether it's a discoverable crime. I'm unwilling to give them that kind of latitude.

They should amend the brief to make it clear that ripping a CD to one's computer is not a criminal act. Placing the MP3s into a shared folder is not a criminal act either, unless that shared folder is intentionally made available to others on a P2P network like KaZaA. It's not clear to me whether the 2000 MP3s they're trying to include were all in the KaZaA folder or not.

By broadening the definition, they're opening the door to become more militant and more intrusive.

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

Karoli — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:03:29 -0000

Shelley,

The use of the shared folder was for he and his wife only. They each burned their own CDs and put them in a shared folder for personal use. It was not made available via P2P on the Internet for sharing.

Mathew's point still applies here, because the CDs were ripped to the computer for personal, not commercial use. Yet the RIAA would have them buy two copies of the same CD plus 2 copies of the MP3 version in order to be in compliance (assuming they listened to the music on their respective computers and own CD players)?

The shared folder argument is a red herring, intended to distract from what the RIAA is really trying to do -- make ripping CDs legally purchased to one's own computer for personal use illegal.

Rat bastards.

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

mathewi — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:43:02 -0000

I will certainly make note of it when I get the chance, if only to
point to the filing and your comment -- I'm currently in transit.

I think the comments made before the Congressional committee reviewing
the DMCA were more than just the bragging of a lone cowboy -- I think
it's obvious the RIAA is at least trying to reserve the option of
arguing that any copying is theft.

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

Shelley — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:20:35 -0000

Mathew, no, I'd say either the comments were out of context, or someone was being a cowboy.

The RIAA knows that if they tried to go after people for just ripping CDs to their computer for loading into iPod, they'd effectively slit their own throats, while at the same time turning the might of Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, and various other giants against them.

The point of my comment isn't necessarily related to RIAAs nefarious plans, but that you wrote, and linked to others who also wrote, that in this filing the RIAA tried to go after the person purely because he ripped CDs to his computer. Curious: are you going to post some kind of correction?

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

mathewi — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 13:42:02 -0000

Fair enough, Shelley. I will take your word on the filing in this
case. But at the same time, it seems fairly clear from the other
comments I mentioned in my post -- the RIAA lawyer's remarks, as well
as the comments made during the DMCA review -- that the industry is
trying to effectively criminalize copying for any purpose.

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

Shelley — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:46:59 -0000

Not in this case, the court documents are very clear. You can read the plaintiff filing yourself. In fact, the document even specifically states:

"Once defendant converted Plaintiff's recording into compressed .mp3 format and they are in his shared folder, they are no longer the authorized copies distributed by plaintiffs."

My biggest concern when I see people misinterpreting events such as this, is that this could end up generate an accidental court decision that could be interpreted as ripping MP3s for personal use from legally purchased CDs is illegal.

Right now, the copyright issue is related to 'publication' of the ripped music, not the actual conversion of the music. The person putting the music into the shared folder is 'publishing' the music, whether the music is actually distributed or not.

It's actually a rather fascinating brief to read. Too bad the Washington Post article writer didn't bother reading it.

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

mathewi — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:30:02 -0000

Shelley, I will go back to the original article when I get a chance,
but based on what I recall reading about this case and the comments
from the RIAA lawyer in the Jammie Thomas case, the industry is
talking not just about copying and placing copies in a P2P folder, but
copying at all for any reason.

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

Shelley — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:20:41 -0000

Actually, Mathew, you read this one wrong. I can't stand the RIAA, but what they said in court documents is that it's a violation of copyright law to rip a legally purchased CD and place the music in a P2P file sharing folder. By doing so, the RIAA implies, they're making that music available for illegal access.

This is a big difference from you ripping your CDs to your computer so you can play on your MP3 player or iPod.

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

scrawledinwax — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:59:04 -0000

To me, it seems like the second part of this argument is always missing. For the sake of it, let's assume my brain fell out of my ass and I agreed that ripping a CD was stealing. What then? Does that mean I need to repurchase electronic copies of all my CDs? Or individual, DRM'ed copies of each song for each different device I have? The mentality that underpins the RIAA's approach is a desire for digital music to have never been invented. How else can you explain their statements or their complete lack of a workable business model?

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

mathewi — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:53:01 -0000

Good point, Jason.

Re: Drop that compact disc, music thief

webomatica — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:40:34 -0000

Yep I agree this is a load of hooey. If the RIAA really takes their idea seriously and tries to sue people who rip commercial CDs, they ought to be fair and also sue all the companies that allow ripping to take place - all the major computer manufacturers, sellers of blank CD media, and heck the record stores too.