Mathew's comments - Latest Comments in Billy Bragg should stick to singing

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

GerdL — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:12:25 -0000

You have no idea what you are talking about. Its very sad.

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

curious — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:05:37 -0000

Bragg did not say everyone should be compensated retroactively after the fact.

He said that new systems should be set up so that artists who generate significant traffic, revenues and profits for others would get some compensation.

You've knocked down a straw man.

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

dave — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:06:56 -0000

Heh. You're a good guy Mat, you can kick ass, and you enjoy a good joke like anyone else.

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

mathewi — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:56:03 -0000

Yeah, you caught me, Dave -- that's the only reason I write any of
this stuff, so that I can make it onto Techmeme.

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Disqus

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

mathewi — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:56:02 -0000

I don't think I'm contradicting my earlier post. I thought Revver's
model made sense because it was set up that way from the beginning,
with artists uploading clips on the understanding that they would be
paid a portion of the revenue. The people who uploaded their music to
Bebo did so knowing full well that they weren't likely to get
compensated by the site (although they were clearly hoping for
compensation from other places), so to suddenly expect a cut of Bebo's
acquisition price seems a little disingenuous.

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Disqus

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

dave — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:51:24 -0000

Mathew "I like to see my site on TechMeme" Ingram. :-)

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

curious — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:49:46 -0000

Doesn't this contradict your earlier post on revenue sharing for videos?

http://www.mathewingram.com/work/2008/02/06/wan...

You wrote:
I was a fan of Revver’s model early on, because I thought it made sense to compensate video artists whose clips drove a lot of traffic to the site. Among the beneficiaries of this model were video artists such as the Eepybird team (the guys behind the Diet Coke and Mentos videos) and the Lonelygirl15 project, as well as a range of other artists, including the Ask A Ninja guys and the creators of the “Will It Blend” videos. Liz Gannes at NewTeeVee has more background on Revver.

One of the controversial aspects of a site such as YouTube is that it makes bundles of cash from the ads that top-rated videos bring, but until relatively recently the creators of those videos got nothing out of the deal

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

scrawledinwax — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:21:34 -0000

I think the Marxist reading is, on some level, still valid. One of the things the Web was,'supposed to do' (in my mind anyway) was transfer some of the means of production to the 'common person' so that, rather than going to a newspaper or record label, one could for no or very little investment, take control of the mechanisms of distribution, sales, marketing etc.

A potential problem with the monetization of human activity - ostensibly the business model of social networking - is that while individuals spend time doing the things they do (messaging, posting photos etc etc), very unlike work, there is no exchange of labour for a wage. The means of production, far from being democratized, are centralised in the hands of Zuckerbergs and Thiels. I guess there's an odd contradiction at the core of different aspects of Web 2.0 - some facets do democratise and open new opportunities for people while others, while certainly fun and even helpful, do a lot to maintain the disparities between 'regular folk' and those with tonnes o' capital and influence.

I know this sounds a bit conspiratorial and it probably is - I guess I mean this more analogously than a direct statement of "Facebook is exploitative". That said, even though I've probably oversimplified things it seems like there's something here worth thinking about in relation to a possible 'set of values' for Web 2.0.

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

Sach — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:34:48 -0000

The artist is exploited in the end ....

http://tinyurl.com/ys4ekc

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

mathewi — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 13:12:02 -0000

Mean-spirited? I fail to see how it's mean-spirited at all -- so I
took a jab at Nick Carr. Big deal. He's a big boy -- he can take it.
You sound like Dave Winer.

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 1:32 AM, Disqus

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

mathewi — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 13:10:01 -0000

I agree, Zac. Good point.

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 1:24 AM, Disqus

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

Cozmo — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 05:48:53 -0000

Wow I think he struck a nerve!
People contributing to a site willingly shouldn't expect to get paid just because the people that actually invested the money into the site to get it going actually got paid for their efforts.

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

call jeffries — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 05:32:00 -0000

mean-spirited beyond belief. a new low - even for you, dude. then again, i expect cheap shots from a hack like you. for the record, nick carr has forgotten more about technology than you've ever learned.

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

Zac Echola — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 05:23:05 -0000

The royalty question is a good one, I think, but I can't see the FCC pinning this one down as easily as they can force webcasters to pay license fees. There, the business determines the music inventory, in the case of MySpace and Bebo, the users determine the inventory.

So, if I'm a popular artist and Bebo/MySpace must pay me royalties for each "spin" I'm in complete control here. It would behoove me to put a lot of my work on their sites, because for each stream, I'd get a fee from the distributor (the site where I put my music).

If you're a start up with no set monetization strategy, you're looking at a very high overhead right from the get-go.

Ultimately it comes down to pure value exchange. More artists get distribution/promotion with almost no barriers to entry. I think Carr and Bragg ignore this element in their discussions.

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

mathewi — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 04:44:04 -0000

Thanks, Zac. Good point.

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Disqus

Re: Billy Bragg should stick to singing

Zac Echola — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 04:36:18 -0000

Bragg is way off base here regarding work. I agree with you on that. The Marxist philosophy on workers doesn't really apply here because the workers choose to use the service for free. They agree to the terms. They choose to externalize the cost of creation for Bebo. In exchange they get a distribution pipe. It's not much different than the terrestrial radio models.

However, I have a few points to correct.

Payola is the other way around: Radio stations can't accept money from artists or labels in exchange for playing their music.

ASCAP/BMI/SESAC do monitor radio stations and collect royalty fees from broadcasters. However the money that makes it's way back to artists is negligible. Radio is largely seen by the industry as a promotional tool for CD sales and concert promotion.